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10 days and counting

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:30 am

Well, Gwahl is level 58 and 300 Inscription. 12 levels in 10 days. Don't think I'll make it.

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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:50 am

We just need to get a pleveling group together for you and pwn some instances.
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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:53 am

UPDATE: Yet Another Ret Nerf Coming
Poor Paladins...

Quote from: Ghostcrawler (Source)

I'm attempting to post this early since the Ret community felt totally surprised last time.

We are looking at some way of making Avenging Wrath and Divine Shield mutually exclusive. This may be through Forbearance, if we can reduce the Forbearance duration through a hotfix. The bubble is intended as a defensive measure. Yet bubble+wings currently is used a lot in BGs and Arenas and helps contribute to the feeling of being destroyed by a Retribution paladin while you are unable to respond.

My apologies to the Ret paladins who already feel picked on. We are really trying hard to not overdo anything but even the last round of pretty severe nerfs didn't seem to do enough to Ret's dominance of PvP.

We are also sympathetic to the notion that if Ret can't do insane burst damage, that the spec might need other tools to be viable in PvP. We're exploring this now, possibly though the missing 11-point Prot talent, possibly through other avenues. We'll let you know when we've made a decision here.

I don't know exactly when this change will go live, but I didn't want you to return from trick-or-treating and be shocked that we didn't announce it, since that seemed to cause a lot of damage with the last nerf.

I'll leave this post unlocked for now, assuming the responses stay intelligent and we don't get too much flaming or trolling.

NOTE: The hotfix will be on Live and the beta.
Class Forum Change Update
The class forums will not be removed (Source)

We have decided that the class forums will stay along with the new role-based forums.

Explanation from Ghostcrawler (Source)

To be clear, the primary purpose of the class forums will be for players to present information to other players. The developers will not have a large presence there except to moderate. If you want to discuss class balance, this is the place.

If you want to discuss optimal dps rotations, try and decide on a talent spec, or ask someone what gear you should be using at level 70, class forums work great for that.

If you start a long thread in the class forums about how your class is the weakest on in the game or how you can't beat mages in PvP, those threads will probably get locked or deleted. Those discussions belong here where you will have to contend with other players who just might disagree (as well as the blues).

The new forum structure is under evaluation (Source)

We're still evaluating what we like and don't like about the new structure. We did think it was time to change the forums though. It was becoming clear even players didn't hold the content on them in high regard.

There is definitely a benefit in having players communicate with each other, particularly on broad topics and particularly on issues of class balance. We had way, way too many (even on the beta forums) threads that turned into pity parties about who was the worst class.

Add Caster and Melee Specific Forums (Source)

We might consider that route eventually. For now it's important for all the classes filling a particular role to actually have to have their discussions more publicly where they are forced to defend their arguments (especially the QQ) in front of other classes.

Character Transfer Gold Limit Increasing
Quote from: Bornakk (Source)

In preparation for the upcoming launch of Wrath of the Lich King, we will be increasing the gold limit for paid character transfers from 10,000 to 20,000 gold. Players who wish to transfer a level-70 (or higher) character carrying up to 20,000 gold will be able to do so starting Tuesday, November 4, after weekly scheduled maintenance is completed.

Please keep in mind that all other transfer-eligibility requirements, restrictions, and policies remain the same. The new gold limit also applies to free character moves (when offered). For more information, please visit our Paid Character Transfer FAQ (http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?articleId=20558&categoryId=2317&parentCategoryId=&pageNumber=1 ).

Blue Posts
Claims of damage being too high in Arenas (Source)

We think there is some truth to this. The recent resilience change was intended to help. We also expect health and mitigation to increase much faster than damage increases as players hit 80, but it is definitely a concern right now in PvP.

Dev Decision Making (Source)

We do very extensive testing on all aspects of combat balance. Remember, as a large company we have access to testing capabilities far beyond that of the average player. As developers of the game, we also have access to a large number of tools that we don't make public.

I mention Patchwerk a lot because raiders understand that he is a fight where most of the raid takes no damage and there are no adds or movement issues. It is a very straight-forward fight. "Patchwerk" is shorthand for a tank and spank fight. But he is not a test case for every possible encounter in the game, nor do we use him as such.

Changes to Ammo being considered (Source)

We are looking at ammo too. We think there might be ways to turn it into an interesting decision about ammo type and not something that requires you to procure 500 stacks before a raid.

PVP Balance Post-WotLK (Source)

I'm not going to promise that we will automatically buff any class that can't obtain X arena rating in the first season. That takes all of the onus off of the community and makes the assumption that strategies and tactics never evolve, which they do.

But we will make balance changes for PvP purposes after LK ships. Absolutely.

Pure DPS classes should outdamage hybrid DPS (Source)

Pure classes should be able to out dps hybrid classes by a small margin. However, hybrid classes should be able to be a lot closer than they were in BC, and depending on the skill, gear and encounter involved, will sometimes beat the pure dps classes.

For purposes of this discussion, pure = mage, warlock, hunter, rogue. These are the classes that cannot spec into healing or tanking roles.

Logic behind buffing hybrid DPS (Source)

Our logic worked out like this:

1) Buffs are breaking the game. There are many examples you could insert here, but here are a few:
-- Ret paladins can't get into the melee group because of all the buffers in there.
-- Stacking shamans for Bloodlust rotations.
-- Stacking Shadow Priests so mana conservation would be irrelevant.
-- Mages getting shut out of raids, in part because it was better to bring yet another lock to benefit from Curse of Shadows.
2) We decided to consolidate buffs such that similar ones would not stack, but we extended the effects to raid wide.
3) Thus, in a 25-player raid, you need far fewer than 25 players to get the buffs you need, allowing you to fill those remaining slots with who you want.
4) Without the benefits of those buffs, those remaining slots would most likely just go to pure dps classes. Shamans, for example, might go from 5 per raid to 1 (or 1 death knight instead).
5) So we buffed hybrid dps a lot.
6) But we knew at the other extreme that pure dps classes risked getting shut out of raids if hybrids could do their damage.
7) So we made sure the pure classes could still do superior dps given similar skill and gear. We wanted you to risk having lower dps if you brought all hybrids.

The "DPS Pyramid" (Source)

Unfortunately class balance is a very touchy subject and players can get really upset about real or perceived slights. It doesn't benefit us a whole lot to publish this "pyramid" but it could very well cause a lot of angst especially among less skilled or uninformed players when they can't hit those numbers. They will then blame us for making their class underpowered.

Ghostcrawler on tanking being easy at 70 (Source)

I do agree that everything is easier right now at 70. But keep in mind these 3 things coming up at 80:

-- Bosses have more armor. That is going to affect the threat generation, particularly of warriors and bears.
-- A lot of groups are AE tanking and burning down groups. It's fun, but at higher levels the risk you're going to take is that those groups kill you.
-- Threat is easy to manage now, and not too bad in Naxx. Naxx was designed to be more of an introduction to raiding. It won't stay that easy. I wouldn't expect a lot of Void Walker-style competitions to stay on top of threat meters compared to other tanks, but you might have to worry about the dps'rs catching up to you at some point.

Is healing in WoW a UI issue? (Source)

One of the things we hear a lot from disaffected healers is they felt like they were playing the UI and not the game. Healers are notorious for standing in fires or whatever because they aren't even looking at the battlefield much of the time.

Here are some random thoughts on the issue:

If everyone threw larger heals more rarely (and damage input matched) you could look away from the UI more often.
We can't just increase healing range without also increasing the range at which the boss can hit you.
Nameplates (if refined) could have a lot of potential for combining UI with the game wold more effectively.
Integrating things into the base WoW UI such as out-of-range indicators, better debuff indicators, or heals from other about to land on a target might make healers be less dependent on mobs.

Druid
Feral Mana and Shifting (Source)

We're not trying to punish Feral with a lack of mana or anything. We're just evaluating how they perform and what they do, especially in PvP with regards to this issue. The bottom line is we're not sure yet if it's really a problem or if the Feral players are just having trouble adjusting to the change. (I understand many of them *say* it's a problem.)

We also aren't trying to make Balance and Resto the shifting specs. However, as mana-using classes they are going to be able to do more with that mana, such as healing. We want druids to be able to shift -- that is a major part of the class. The only thing in contention is how often is too often and how much can they do in night elf or tauren form.

Mage
Mage Armor (Source)

FWIW, Mage Armor is quite powerful, but it's a trade-off. It's going to make mages harder to kill by some classes but easier to others. That seems like a decent design, so then it just comes down to numbers. We'll keep an eye on it, but it's not something slated for an imminent nerf.

Paladin
More on Ret (Source)

We LOVE Ret paladins. Seriously. We made a ton of changes to the spec that we wouldn't have done if we didn't care what happened to the class. When we did Naxx tests and people brought Ret paladins, it was great. Even before they became overpowered, there were several posts by Ret pallies saying how they liked the changes to their class (so I don't think it was just an issue that they were rolling over everyone that made them fun).

Sadly, you were overpowered by a considerable margin in both PvE and PvP. That was our fault (mine really) and not anything the community did. Most Ret pallies actually seem to agree they were OP and only argue with the magnitude of the nerfs.

What kind of non-AoE heal would you like? (Source)

Just say for sake of argument that anything remotely like Circle of Healing is off the table. Just pretend we said that it goes against the vision of the paladin class or whatever to ever AE heal (that's not true, but just roll with me here).

Now then, what is the one healing spell you would want added to your repetoire?

Shaman
Shaman AoE Capability (Source)

If you have ever read the beta forums, you'll know that we have changed our minds on the design of Elemental and decided that the spec needs to be able to do real AE in order to fill the ranged dps role. We're still considering the best way to do that. Totems, Chain Lightning, or Thunderstrom are all candidates (possibly glyphed) but all have their problems too, which is why we haven't settled on an implementation yet.

Warlock
Shadowflame (Source)

Shadowflame fulfills a very specific role. If you hadn't noticed, we are pushing Destro more towards fire and Affliction more towards shadow. Shadowflame is one of the few spells that crosses over because it does both types of damage (which should have obvious ramifications for a lock).

Demonic Circle (Source)

We think Demonic Circle is going to end up being a big deal. It's not a trivial spell to use -- it's a thinking person's spell. It takes planning and some intuition. I suspect it is being underestimated because so few people have actually gotten to use it yet.

Future Affliction Changes (Source)

We think the complex rotation is very hard to pull off in PvE too and seems to almost mandate a mod, which is a problem. We have some long-term plans to change Affliction around a little bit.

No more PVP-specific trees (Source)

There are no PvP trees anymore. My comment was that Demo may not have the sustained dps of the other two trees in PvE, but at least it would still be taken for PvP. We need to see if the survivability offered by the tree offsets its lower dps or not. (And before anyone responds that you would raid with 10 health if it would improve your dps, I'll remind you that your dps when dead is 0.)

Warrior
Concerns with changes (Source)

Tanking 5-player dungeons
Arms and Fury can tank 5-player dungeons fine. The Shield Slam change alone helped a lot here.

Arms = pve Fury = total fail Protection = Success
You offered almost no detail here. Both Arms and Fury are mobile in PvP and bring the MS debuff. Both of them can do great PvE damage. What's the issue?

Hello sudden Death "RNG IS BAD" - Bleed effects " Both are useless in pvp MS is still king"
Arms definitely cares about Deep Wounds and Execute now. Overpower perhaps a little less. I totally disagree they are useless in PvP.

Battle Stance is still lacking
It's definitely better than it used to be. Could we do more with it? We're not sure yet.

Mobility change is found in Protection tree?
Warbringer is great (despite a ton of QQ when we first implemented the talent). But Arms and Fury still have Charge, Intercept and Intervene. I am sad we couldn't make Heroic Leap work.

Plate is useless unless tanking
I think the jury is out here. The goal wasn't to prevent warriors from wearing leather. It was to make plate more attractive, which I feel like we've done.
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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:55 am

Did i miss anything uber over the weekend?
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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:59 am

Even a pleveling group would take too long unless we spent whole days on it. The quests are what level you the quickest in Outlands. Still not sure what order I'm going to take everyone to 80. It's either going to be Nodden or Totten first. After that I guess it would depend on what roles we want to fill.

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:01 am

Friday night no one was on till late. Think it was just me, Mahon, and Greyzen at 10PM. We finished up Kara on Saturday. Last night was FFA.

We should try for ZA a few more times before the 13th. Should be able to get 2-3 more clears in depending on the reset timer.

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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:07 am

I'm up for ZA. That was a fun time. I ended up just running dailies last night. trying to get some cash before the exp.
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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:30 am

Yeah, I need to switch to doing at least 5 easy ones a night. Blew 120g in Inscription mats last night alone.

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Post  sangari Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:36 am

Hold Gwahl at 58 and he can level with me DK who has to start at 55 anyways Wink I think Bren has a toon in that range too, I need a group so I can figure how how the heck those guys are supposed to tank (before 80 ideally)

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:43 am

Grav has his warrior around 55, Folies is 50, and Moy is 63. So we've got a few within 10 levels of each other.

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Post  sangari Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:03 pm

See that works, join the 2nd tier crew! Very Happy

Its too bad I cant start the DK until expansion time, but at least that is getting close!

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:06 pm

Really wish I could take the 17th and 18th off. Vacation doesn't start till December though.

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Post  maebee Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:48 pm

hi!
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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:05 pm

MAEBEE!!!! Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz
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Post  maebee Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:25 pm

nto!!!
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Post  Jezhra Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:59 pm

MONK!!!

Check your ingame calendar asap. ZA tomorrow night 8pm server time....

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:21 pm

I'll be there with bells on. I'd prefer to take Totten, Nodden, or Athaan in that order if possible. I'll take Athaan if we need another tank though.

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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:23 pm

I think ill take Nto. In that order.
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Post  Jezhra Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:27 pm

Well I invited nod and ath, get on one and accept the invite when you get a chance

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:31 pm

Next time I'm selected for jury duty, I'm gonna do what this lady did.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/03/stevens.trial.juror.ap/index.html

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Post  Nodden Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:32 pm

It's nice to see other people writing on the walls. Arrow

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Post  Nto Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:03 pm

good plan. Let me have you chars while your in jail.
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Post  maebee Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:10 pm

i can tank with maebee if you guys have enough faith in me haha. i'll pretty much respec to whatever we need - maebee's gonna be my main so i am planning on taking her just about everywhere i can.
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Post  gravin Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:13 pm

hey look. forgot about the forums. how the fuck are ya monk?
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Post  sangari Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:37 pm

Heh, no matter how many times I post here, I still keep forgetting to check the forums

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